tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post3876999296696774664..comments2023-04-26T09:15:19.142-04:00Comments on CFS Central: DUSTY MILLER REDUXMindy Kiteihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12570126270241201680noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-2173224768389973362011-06-19T20:44:36.995-04:002011-06-19T20:44:36.995-04:00Rather than participate in a flame war about his o...Rather than participate in a flame war about his own work, I would like to tell Dusty why I think the proposed recombination hypothesis was a strategic blunder of epic proportions, XMRV completely aside. I hope this will not disappoint other readers of this blog, and will benefit some scientists whose work might be harmed. <br /><br />You might just remember some heated public debate in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-87892369598044429662011-06-19T19:00:29.579-04:002011-06-19T19:00:29.579-04:00@Ian Hodgson PhD - Even if XMRV selectively infect...@Ian Hodgson PhD - Even if XMRV selectively infects cell lines that are disabled in their immune response, it can't explain the discrepancy in positives between patients and controls as you claim. Thats because all samples are blinded and tested the same way. Patients and controls (and water controls) are run through the same cell lines for culture using the same method. So if the cell Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-47948095158568030192011-06-19T18:37:10.904-04:002011-06-19T18:37:10.904-04:00Sfanos et al. used unproven assays to detect XMRV....Sfanos et al. used unproven assays to detect XMRV. They didn't find XMRV though. The sequences they say are in the GenBank are also not there.<br /><br />You cannot get an immune reaction from a contaminant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-1567962753018132622011-06-19T05:16:56.779-04:002011-06-19T05:16:56.779-04:00http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.137...http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0020874?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+plosone%2FVirology+%28PLoS+ONE+Alerts%3A+Virology%29<br /><br />While this study is not investigating ME/CFS it does suggest that XMRV has a proclivity to immune dysfunctional cell lines in the laboratory. How can blood samples of "controls" show Ian Hodgson PhDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-28819436001277748512011-06-18T15:47:10.502-04:002011-06-18T15:47:10.502-04:00Andy said...
re. my comment about the Hep B vaccin...Andy said...<br />re. my comment about the Hep B vaccine... So, because CFS has occurred in clusters often, it makes this cluster somehow less interesting? not sure why I got jumped on for that one.<br /><br /><br />Andy, you've been around M.E. circles for a while now. Why does M. Bloomer's hepatitis vaccine outbreak merit a "whoa" when we're speaking of an epidemic? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-86500141926852741052011-06-18T07:00:34.016-04:002011-06-18T07:00:34.016-04:00@Peter: The technical details are not muddled at a...@Peter: The technical details are not muddled at all for anyone who understands them. The negatives studies don't refute the findings. Not sure why you highlight the Hanson study is blinded, as Lombardi et al. was also blinded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-81361724169556447472011-06-17T21:50:51.743-04:002011-06-17T21:50:51.743-04:00Mindy, I have a suggestion. (sorry, you're doi...Mindy, I have a suggestion. (sorry, you're doing all the hard work researching and blogging and I'm doing nothing but come up with a suggestion) :- discussions of detection and replication methods is always going to get technical and muddled. I think the most productive line of questioning is the differentiation of controls and patients in Lombardi; now repeated (blinded) by Cornell Uni. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13253264854441636266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-72652703714498717382011-06-17T16:06:18.102-04:002011-06-17T16:06:18.102-04:00All I know is when samples are handled the same wa...All I know is when samples are handled the same way the patients in the lombardi science paper were 67% positive and controls 4% positive.<br /> In the Lo et. al. study by the NIH and FDA there was 87% positive and controls 7% using Coffin's requested detection methods for contamination.<br /> Until someone shows that those studies were contaminated and how it happened the science of HGRV&Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-10759811732964962342011-06-17T15:41:49.087-04:002011-06-17T15:41:49.087-04:00re. my comment about the Hep B vaccine... So, bec...re. my comment about the Hep B vaccine... So, because CFS has occurred in clusters often, it makes this cluster somehow less interesting? not sure why I got jumped on for that one.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12242423419668097461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-82655595681343011742011-06-17T10:54:29.677-04:002011-06-17T10:54:29.677-04:00If this new paper was about to be published you wo...If this new paper was about to be published you would think his university would have had a press release in advance. Funny I can't find one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-3107672039174027992011-06-17T09:54:24.143-04:002011-06-17T09:54:24.143-04:00We now see that having a positive control resembli...We now see that having a positive control resembling the result invalidates a study via contamination. We have previously seen that hundreds of negative controls which remain negative are irrelevant. Real scientists must be able to work entirely without controls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-74155171618404628882011-06-17T09:17:54.759-04:002011-06-17T09:17:54.759-04:00Very interesting, "If the claimed result can ...Very interesting, "If the claimed result can only be obtained by performing the experiment in one spot in the Mikovits lab, perhaps while singing a particular song, then the results are not generalizable and should be looked on with suspicion." Apparently Silverman, the Cleveland Clinic, the NCI and the Ruscettis played no role. <br /><br />I would like to point out that the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-90067209038495675082011-06-17T08:33:08.862-04:002011-06-17T08:33:08.862-04:00Dusty, you have lost it. The word similar, does n...Dusty, you have lost it. The word similar, does not mean replication. No study has attempted to replicate Lombardi or Lo et al. <br /><br />The fact is, it is very easy to replicate their assays, but no one can be bother to use the same variables as those labs. If you cannot control your annealing temperatures, buffer, the primers, the PCR type, etc. then you should all leave the field of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-91940492459008660562011-06-17T01:01:06.165-04:002011-06-17T01:01:06.165-04:00What an obvious dodge...and a really nasty thinly ...What an obvious dodge...and a really nasty thinly veiled swipe at Mindy as well.<br /><br />Color me unimpressed and unconvinced. <br /><br />*sigh* and I had such hope for the Hutch too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-32649258057542271162011-06-17T00:02:39.157-04:002011-06-17T00:02:39.157-04:00Yeah I dunno about that. The Levy/Knox paper migh...Yeah I dunno about that. The Levy/Knox paper might have been a good effort. But they didn't even use the same cell line type as Lombardi. And there were other non-minor differences in their PCR protocol. It wasn't a shoddy study by a long shot, just as the Singh paper wasn't–but it didn't duplicate the methods of the Lombardi paper exactly. Using different methods, even if Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-23058041819729237752011-06-16T23:46:22.183-04:002011-06-16T23:46:22.183-04:00Dr. Miller is again being disingenuous.
For exam...Dr. Miller is again being disingenuous.<br /> <br />For example, he says " Importantly, many of the CFS subjects they studied came from Dr. Peterson's practice in Incline Village, and represent some of the same patients that Lombardi et al. studied." <br /><br />Well O.K., that may well be true, but how many of those patients actually tested XMRV +ve in the Lombardi et. al. study?<Paul Wattonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-16283406946468568602011-06-16T23:43:43.768-04:002011-06-16T23:43:43.768-04:00That's probably the problem he can't do a ...That's probably the problem he can't do a replication study because no XMRV positives are willing. And judging by his actions it was a wise move on their part. I doubt he'll get his hands on any Peterson patients now either (with the exception of a couple maybe). I'm sure they've figured out by now how they were used. Problem is no one knows if they were actually patients Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-81099895671803042572011-06-16T23:25:30.140-04:002011-06-16T23:25:30.140-04:00I really think Dusty Miller and his nonsense have ...I really think Dusty Miller and his nonsense have been given too much attention already. Let's see his study. I see no need for further comment on an unpublished study.<br /><br />Patricia Carterwildaisyflhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03631249631409695914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1078685116296921818.post-18569099203780084862011-06-16T22:41:59.386-04:002011-06-16T22:41:59.386-04:00Dr. Miller sets up a straw man argument when he su...Dr. Miller sets up a straw man argument when he suggests that it would be impractical and kind of silly to have to go to the identical spot in the same lab in order to faithfully replicate an experiment.<br /><br />No one is suggesting such ridiculous measures. He is simply avoiding honestly answering Mindy's question about replication.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01389434229419098802noreply@blogger.com